GoCorral

Is attempting to understand an eight year old controversy useful? No!

Are we going to do it anyway? Yes!

Back in 2018 Cody Lewis of the Taking20 YouTube channel had a meeting with Roll20 executives. Cody had an actual play series called Save or Dice made with other YouTube creators. He was pitching it to Nolan T. Jones of Roll20 as a possible sponsorship collaboration with the company. Cody had done some previous work for Roll20 and it seemed like a natural expansion of their working relationship. Nolan T. turned Cody down, stating that Roll20 didn’t need “five white guys” representing them. Five white guys being the YouTube creators of Save or Dice.

That’s the core of the controversy. A founder of Roll20 rejecting a marketing deal based on the creator’s race and sex. After the public learned about this conversation there was a lot of community uproar in Reddit and online forum spaces. A couple other events were connected to this one in the eye of the public consciousness. All together this made the Five White Guys comment into the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Roll20 Moderation on Reddit

Roll20 has official forums on their website for people to discuss the product and the RPGs it’s used for. The forums are hosted and controlled by Roll20’s company. Some people want a space away from the company to discuss the product. With how the internet is setup at the moment, Reddit is the standard spot for that. So there’s a Roll20 subreddit that people can use to discuss what they like and don’t like about Roll20.

There was a problem though. There were lots of compliments about Roll20 in that space, but not much criticism. Almost no criticism, even though that space potentially exists for the entire reason of complaining about Roll20 where the company can’t control the narrative like they can on the official forums. Why weren’t there complaints on Roll20’s reddit?

The reason is that the subreddit only seemed like it was a separate space. In fact, all the moderators who controlled the Roll20 subreddit were Roll20 employees. This came to light after a series of bans were discussed in other areas of Reddit. Apparently one of Roll20’s founders, Nolan T. Jones,  had been excessively squashing criticism by removing posts and banning people from Roll20’s subreddit.

Cody’s Video

Quick on the tails of the subreddit drama, Cody released this video on his Taking20 YouTube channel. He described the events of his conversation with that very same Nolan T. Jones. Cody had talked to him in May of 2018, but posted the video in September 2018, right alongside the other drama occurring on the subreddit.

Cody and his fellow YouTubers were dismissed for being “Five White Guys.”

But that’s not really the issue. Companies make marketing decisions based on sex and race all the time. Victoria’s Secret doesn’t hire many male underwear models. Hollywood frequently casts white men in lead roles because that image sells more tickets than other demographics. Roll20 probably would’ve had a similar response if five black women had approached them about a sponsorship deal. They wanted a diverse cast that showed the diverse community of RPGs, even if that community is a plurality of white men.

Other people saw it the same way I do. A user on Roll20’s forums with the screen name Loren the GM said,

“Phrasing of the statement? Bad. In context of trying to explain,

‘Our marketing needs are currently targeting other demographics that I highly suspect this project won’t meet, so unless you can show me your analytics match the market our remaining advertising dollars are for we don’t have much more to discuss. Even if you can meet that demographic, we are looking to create a more representative atmosphere among the talent on any shows we sponsor, and casting five very similar people doesn’t match our vision of how we would like our shows to represent our diverse gaming community. Here, let me give you some examples of marketing initiatives we are currently working with.’

The shorthand sentence as reported makes sense but is problematic. It does not unpack enough information.”

Dismissing Cody’s group as “Five White Guys” was rude, but a logical business decision. Using kinder language like Loren did would’ve been better. And perhaps Nolan T. did phrase his decision in a nice fashion, but only said the “Five White Guys” comment when pressured by Cody.

Roll20’s Response

As far as their subreddit moderation, Roll20 had a strong response. Roll20 employees who acted as moderators on the subreddit handed off their moderator abilities to responsible community members. Previous unfair bans were lifted and people were allowed to criticize the company and product more openly.

I couldn’t find an official response from Roll20 to Cody’s video. What you can find is the more diverse sponsorship deals that Roll20 went with. By March 2019 you can see a much more diverse cast representing the Roll20 brand as something enjoyed by all sorts of people, not just Five White Guys.

Aftermath

Where are Roll20, Nolan T. Jones, and the Five White Guys today?

Roll20 remains one of the most successful virtual tabletops available. I’m not sure on exact market share, but I’d be surprised if Roll20 isn’t at the top, followed by Foundry and then Fantasy Grounds. They may have made some bad business decisions but it worked out in the long run for them.

Nolan T. Jones is in semi retirement. He built a hugely successful company with his work. While some of his decisions aren’t great, in the long run they worked out for him too. His LinkedIn page says he stopped working at Roll20 and now makes films. He remains an owner in the company though.

The Five White Guys/The cast of Save or Dice? They’ve all faded from their heights of niche internet celebrity status in one way or another.

Cody Lewis of Taking20 switched to using a different virtual tabletop. He kept making YouTube content for a while, but as of November 2022 he stopped posting online under his Taking20 label. He explicitly stated that he wouldn’t explain why, but there’s some indication that he might return to making content when he posted a Happy New Years message at the start of 2026.

Andrew Armstrong of DawnForgedCast posted a bunch of racist content. The backlash was harsh and he deleted his online social media presence to prevent consequences from following him to his real life.

Jonathan Pruitt of the WebDM duo decided to step back from social media content creation in October 2021. The channel continued for a few months without him but eventually Jim Davis stopped as well in April 2022.

Dave Friant of Nerdarchy kept making videos. He might not be as active anymore, but the videos are still coming out with some regularity. No significant controversies I could find besides using AI art and human art without attribution, a crime that many people on the internet are guilty of.

And the Five White Guys Controversy? Forgotten by most people because it wasn’t that big a deal.

Sources for this article:
https://kotaku.com/one-fans-criticism-of-d-d-app-roll20-sends-its-subreddi-1829374197
https://octobergeek.wordpress.com/2018/09/30/why-im-staying-with-roll20-for-now/
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/k2739z/anyone_know_what_happened_to_dawnforgedcast/